Future of Managed JScript (IronJScript)?

Jun 1, 2009 at 8:50 PM

From the Silverlight Dynamic Language SDK 0.5.0 release notes:

"Managed JScript has been removed from the package"

What is the official stance (or unofficial, as the case may be) regarding an ECMA-232 compliant version of JavaScript on the DLR?  We are specifically interested in a "server-side" implementation for application scripting, outside of ASP.NET if possible.

- James

Coordinator
Jun 1, 2009 at 10:13 PM

The DLR JScript was experimental for informing the design of the DLR (expression trees, interop, callsites, hosting, etc.).  The JS we released with asp futures and the Silverlight dynamic sdk became very old and unserviceable as the DLR continued evolving for release in CLR 4.0.  Unfortunately, there are no plans at this time to develop and release a DLR-hostable JScript.

Thanks,

Bill

From: jhugard [mailto:notifications@codeplex.com]
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:50 PM
To: Bill Chiles
Subject: Future of Managed JScript (IronJScript)? [dlr:58121]

From: jhugard

From the Silverlight Dynamic Language SDK 0.5.0 release notes:

"Managed JScript has been removed from the package"

What is the official stance (or unofficial, as the case may be) regarding an ECMA-232 compliant version of JavaScript on the DLR? We are specifically interested in a "server-side" implementation for application scripting, outside of ASP.NET if possible.

- James

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Jun 1, 2009 at 10:29 PM

Considering that the JScript.NET API's are all deprecated or obsolete, does this mean that MS is not providing an upgrade path off ActiveScript, thereby officially dropping support for JavaScript scripting in a .NET environment (DLR or otherwise)?

 

Coordinator
Jun 1, 2009 at 11:21 PM

The JScript team will continue supporting using native Jscript (jscript.dll) with IActiveScript.  They’ll also continue to service Jscript.NET, but they aren’t making other commitments at this point.

Bill

From: jhugard [mailto:notifications@codeplex.com]
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:30 PM
To: Bill Chiles
Subject: Re: Future of Managed JScript (IronJScript)? [dlr:58121]

From: jhugard

Considering that the JScript.NET API's are all deprecated or obsolete, does this mean that MS is not providing an upgrade path off ActiveScript, thereby officially dropping support for JavaScript scripting in a .NET environment (DLR or otherwise)?

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Jun 2, 2009 at 1:21 AM

Bill,

 

Would MS be willing to open source the Manage JScript implementation they released as a preview a while back? I'm sure the community would be willing to pick it up and run with it. I know there are various factors which would influence this decision, but I think it would be a really popular tool among developers to be able to migrate to a JS implementation running on the DLR.

 

Thanks,

 

slide

Jun 2, 2009 at 9:00 AM

we have been working on one based on the DLR. Script. It's free with source (but not opensource)

Coordinator
Jun 2, 2009 at 4:37 PM

The JS team considered that, but honestly, it is so far behind the curve now that other than the parser (not much lift there over what’s out there :-)), there isn’t much that’s salvageable.  There are already 2-3 starts on an DLR-based JS in the community, ranging from self-learning/tutorial to (see right nav bar on the DLR’s codplex page) to others as someone posted in response to you.

Bill

From: slide_o_mix [mailto:notifications@codeplex.com]
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:21 PM
To: Bill Chiles
Subject: Re: Future of Managed JScript (IronJScript)? [dlr:58121]

From: slide_o_mix

Bill,

Would MS be willing to open source the Manage JScript implementation they released as a preview a while back? I'm sure the community would be willing to pick it up and run with it. I know there are various factors which would influence this decision, but I think it would be a really popular tool among developers to be able to migrate to a JS implementation running on the DLR.

Thanks,

slide

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Jun 10, 2009 at 9:47 PM

Me: Hey, wait a minute.
Managed JScript: What?
Me: You didn't see Lefors out there, did you?
Managed Jscript: Lefors? No.
Me: Oh, good. For a moment there I thought we were in trouble.

 

Jun 10, 2009 at 10:17 PM

@mnadig - you forgot the best part of that scene:

[They both run out of the building, only to be met with gunfire from all sides from the Bolivian army]

Jun 10, 2009 at 10:36 PM

@jhugard - I was hoping it was implied ;)

Jun 11, 2009 at 7:37 PM

I think it is better that Ms did not publish JScript.

It took me one month, working 1-2 hours daily in my spare time to build a working scripting language. I decided i want to borrow concepts from pascal, T-SQL, C++ and Javascript.

So, i've built a language as i wish, why bother being limited by other's idea of a languge?

Put  your creativity to work, it is also a good exercise...

Hint:

  Use ANTLR for parsing, it rocks really ...

Jun 13, 2009 at 1:56 AM
Edited Jun 13, 2009 at 1:57 AM

@ursuletzu - See this question on StackOverflow.com for a list of reasons/requirements this solution won't work for us.

Jun 13, 2009 at 2:06 AM
@jhugard - please contact me off-list (diakopter@gmail.com) email or gtalk/msn IM...

Thanks,
Matthew Wilson
Jun 13, 2009 at 6:07 AM

jhugard, I understand your reasons, you need a fully backward compatible JScript engine...

Jul 13, 2009 at 6:05 PM

@billchi, when Managed JScript was announced, Deepak Jain said on the JScript team blog that "We are working to make sure that Managed JScript is a first class language on top of DLR." Now you are saying that "The DLR JScript was experimental for informing the design of the DLR." These statements are not compatible. Either you are accusing Deepak Jain of lying at the time, or you are lying now. Which is it?

Do you understand the negative effect this sort of back-tracking and doublespeak has on your company's reputation amongst its customers and partners?

Jul 13, 2009 at 6:12 PM
To be fair, companies change/cancel their product directions all the time.  What you might complain about instead is your inferred (but unproven?) delay between the product end-of-life decision/commitment and the notification of interested parties outside of the company.



On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Amtiskaw <notifications@codeplex.com> wrote:

From: Amtiskaw

@billchi, when Managed JScript was announced, Deepak Jain said on the JScript team blog that "We are working to make sure that Managed JScript is a first class language on top of DLR." Now you are saying that "The DLR JScript was experimental for informing the design of the DLR." These statements are not compatible. Either you are accusing Deepak Jain of lying at the time, or you are lying now. Which is it?

Do you understand the negative effect this sort of back-tracking and doublespeak has on your company's reputation amongst its customers and partners?

Read the full discussion online.

To add a post to this discussion, reply to this email (dlr@discussions.codeplex.com)

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Coordinator
Jul 13, 2009 at 8:32 PM

Deepak was not lying, and we WERE working to make JScript first class on the DLR, but they didn’t get very far.  That work got sidelined for a long while due to some higher demand work (motivated by customers) that his team owned.  I must have failed to be clear in my message.  We regard the JScript work as experimental since it was sidelined too early in its development and for so long, and there are no plans at this time to resurrect it.  Yes, we would like to see a first class JScript that supports the DLR, but we have no idea when someone at Microsoft or in the community will provide it.  As we said before, there’s no good reason at all to provide the old code open source because you would waste way too much time grokking extremely out of date code that would not help you figure out how to start your own JScript project on the DLR’s current APIs.

Bill

From: diakopter [mailto:notifications@codeplex.com]
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:12 AM
To: Bill Chiles
Subject: Re: Future of Managed JScript (IronJScript)? [dlr:58121]

From: diakopter

To be fair, companies change/cancel their product directions all the time. What you might complain about instead is your inferred (but unproven?) delay between the product end-of-life decision/commitment and the notification of interested parties outside of the company.


On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Amtiskaw <notifications@codeplex.com> wrote:

From: Amtiskaw

@billchi, when Managed JScript was announced, Deepak Jain said on the JScript team blog that "We are working to make sure that Managed JScript is a first class language on top of DLR." Now you are saying that "The DLR JScript was experimental for informing the design of the DLR." These statements are not compatible. Either you are accusing Deepak Jain of lying at the time, or you are lying now. Which is it?

Do you understand the negative effect this sort of back-tracking and doublespeak has on your company's reputation amongst its customers and partners?

Read the full discussion online.

To add a post to this discussion, reply to this email (dlr@discussions.codeplex.com)

To start a new discussion for this project, email dlr@discussions.codeplex.com

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Jul 22, 2013 at 12:52 PM
Correct ROScript link (mentioned above) http://www.remobjects.com/script.aspx